The man beneath the mitre and mozetta

Nicholas Fitzherbert, in the first of an occasional series profiling England's leading churchmen, talks to Bishop James. O'Brien auxiliary in Westminster
Fitzherbert: At what age did you find your vocation and do you still have memories of your ordination day?
Bishop O'Brien: I suppose I first thought about a vocation to the priesthood when I was in St Ignatius' College, Stamford Hill; that would have been when I was about the age of 14.
We had a remarkable headmaster there, Fr Brinkworth, happily still living. He did very much to foster vocations to the priesthood. St Ignatius' in those days had a remarkable reputation for producing vocations. Four of the men in my year in the sixth form went on to become priests.
Fr Brinkworth thought that his school was quite adequate and there was no need for me to go off to the Junior Seminary. So I stayed there right through into sixth form and completed what would be the equivalent of A level studies in the sixth form at St Ignatius'. From there I went straight to the Seminary. Fitzherbert: Did you enjoy the challenge of growing up in a family? Bishop O'Brien: I have always been grateful to have my two brothers and two sisters. I think there has to be, when one has a reasonably large family, a certain amount of give and take. One is not allowed to shelter behind illusions. One is not allowed to become too selfish or too peculiar because these defects are very quickly spotted by other members of the family, who regard it as their prerogative and privilege to correct them.
My two sisters often visit me and they still regard it as their right and duty to correct any aberrations and any peculiarities that they see setting in. One of them is particularly sympathetic with the women's movement, so woe betide me if I make any statements which might be offensive to woman kind.
Fitzherbert: Were your parents examples which, even today, you try and follow?
Bishop O'Brien: I was blessed
with a very happy and contented home. It was by no means a wealthy home. I remember the economy that had to be practised in my home. It's a habit which is still with me.
Fitzherbert: Is there anything particular you remember from the first eight years of your priestly life at St Lawrence's parish, Feltham, Middlesex.
Bishop O'Brien: I remember my ordination ceremony in 1954 at Westminster Cathedral, being prostrate on the sanctuary during the Litany of Saints and breathing a silent prayer that I would not be sent anywhere near an airport.
After the ordination ceremony we had breakfast with Cardinal Griffin and there was an appointment letter in our breakfast place. Mine instructed me to report to the parish priest at Feltham in Middlesex, a place of which I had not heard And I discovered it was next door to London airport.
London airport was the biggest employer in the district. People would come up to me after Mass on unday and say that they didn't see me last week because they were in New York.
Fr Bridgeman was the parish priest, a man of the old school. In some ways quite forward looking, in others quite set in his ways. I gathered enough good stories in my eight years at Feltham to dine out on for the rest of my life.
I also remember Feltham because it was the only parish appointment I ever had. My ambition has always been to be a parish priest but it hasn't worked out that way. To my alarm when I finished at Feltham, Cardinal Godfrey asked me to join the Catholic Missionary Society.
I was a member for six years, travelling all over the country giving parish missions and staying presbyteries and meeting a lot of people. Then after I'd been six years with the Mission Society, again, to my amazement, Cardinal Heenan asked whether I would go to the diocesan seminary at Allen Hall to be Rector at St Edmund's College.
Fitzherbert: Your were there nine years, until 1977. How did you enjoy your time there?
Bishop O'Brien: It was a very rich experience. I'd had very little contact with the seminary since my ordination and I approached the task with some apprehension. The only request I made of Cardinal Heenan was that if the job did not work out then he must not hesitate to fire me. He said: "Have no fear, I shall do precisely that"!
At St Edmunds' I had many formative experiences. Not least, I had the privilege and pleasure of living with Bishop Butler f,j, seven years-. He *as President of the College.
If you want to get to know a person, have breakfast with him — it's the quickest and most infallible way of discovering what a person is really like. In all those years of breakfasting with Bishop Butler I never saw him bad-tempered or irritable.
Fitzherbert: How many vocations did you see through to ordination?
Bishop O'Brien: They may have averaged about six a year in which case I would have helped in the formation of about 50 priests.
I found in the seminary that I learned as much from the students as they learned from me and it was a chastening experience. In fact, I find that the more responsibility one has, the more one is exposed to selfknowledge and the more humbling it can become.
Fitzherbert: In 1977 you were consecrated Bishop in Hertfordshire, at the age of 47. Bishop O'Brien: Yes. I think my first feeling was one of amazement at being asked to succeed Bishop Butler. The way it happened was not without amusement. After I'd been with the society nine years I thought it was time to move on. They agreed.
So I went to see Cardinal Hume and told him that it was time I moved on and he said.: "I quite agree and I would like you to succeed Bishop Butler in Hertfordshire."
Fitzherbert: How do you spend your free time?
Bishop Butler: I don't have a regular day off because I find I receive requests which make it impossible. Nevertheless I ti y and keep in touch with home.
One of the consequences of being born into a large family is that one has constant support. There's a trust within the family which is almost impossible to find anywhere else. It's a great antidote to loneliness.
Fitzherbert: Would you say that loneliness is one of the trials of the priesthood which lay people probably take for granted?
Bishop O'Brien: The natural state for a diocesan priest is to be a parish priest; that is to say he should have direct links with the people of the parish. I think that parish priests can be, and often are, extremely busy.
Even so, it is possible for priests, no matter how busy they are, to have areas of their lives in which they are alone. Now it may not be quite the same thing as loneliness. One would hope that the priest is trying to deepen his own spiritual life and trying to draw closer to Our Lord and from Our Lord he will derive support and encouragement and strength.
We have introduced a diocesan programme called "The Ministry of Priests Programme". Basically the idea is that a group of priests will meet regularly and be a support group to each other.
Strange to say, the support group to which I belong is the walking and cooking group. We take it in turn to get a meal for the others and we try to get in a walk each time.
It is essential, it seems to me, that a priest should have support and love from his own parishioners. Otherwise there is frustration and the possibility of disillusionment and the possibility of growing away from one's people and from the high ideals of the priesthood. I would like to remind people that they have the privilege and the responsibility and the duty of loving their priest.
Fitzherbert: Do you think real ecumenical progress has been made over the past 20 years? Bishop O'Brien: I think the pi ogress that has been made is little short of miraculous. There's .been really substantial progress. I'm talking about the progress that's been made at all sorts of levels now. In the first place it seems to me that progress has been made on the theological level. I'm thinking of agreed Statements between ourselves and the Anglicans, between ourselves and the Methodists and between ourselves and the Lutherans. I'm also thinking of Baptism, Eucharist and Ministry, which was enlightening. Movement has taken place at all sorts of levels and we should be so grateful. Fitzherbert: Can you tell me something about your views on international justice?
Bishop O'Brien: One of the responsibilities I was asked to undertake by '..he Bishops' Conference was to be the Chairman of the Department for International Affairs. This includes the Committee for Justice and Peace, of which I am
also Chairman and I've been working in this field of justice and peace for the last 4 years since I became a Bishop.
Before I became bishop I have hardly travelled outside Europe and now, in the last nine years, I think I've been to all five continents. It has been an extraordinarily interesting period.
I have been, among other places, to El Salvador for the funeral of Archbishop Romero, to Nicaragua and Guatemala and Cuba. On each of these countries I could write a book they are so fascinating. I've also travelled in Africa and I have visited India and the Philippines and the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia. So the travelling has been quite extensive.
My general impression from my travels and from my reading is to agree with you that the world is a very troubled place.
I am a fan of Amnesty International, One of the reasons I am impressed with Amnesty is that it is impartial in Its examination and condemnation of abuse.
The most chastening reading matter which I receive comes from Amnesty International. It would seem according to Amnesty that most of the countries in the world use torture routinely not as an aberration by an individual policeman but routinely as a method of control.
The abuse of human rights that is going on at this very moment is incredible. Apart from all thii, there's the basic denial of human dignity and the millions of impoverished and famished victims.
It has been estimated that something like 15 million children under the age of five die each year from malnutrition, which could have been prevented if there was determination on the part of the world community.
I have a feeling that future generations will judge us for our callousness and indifference.