A Catholic nun and Rabbi Julia Neuberger engaged in a dialogue, reported by Claire Crowther

Women of two faiths speak out
THE ORDINATION of women is not on the Catholic agenda. What can a woman do who she feels she has a vocation to the priesthood? Sr Joanna (her name is changed at her request) is in the rare position of sharing equal responsibility for a parish with its male priests. She cannot celebrate the sacraments but otherwise her day to day ministry for the past few years has been that of a parish priest.
In some faiths, women do have the right to full ministry, Rabbi Julia Neuberger a Liberal Jew was the first woman rabbi in the world to be given her own congregation. Eight years later, she still runs the South London Libel al Synagogue.
She and Sr Joanna met to discuss the problems of being among the first women to minister equally with men. This is a shortened transcription of their conversation.
Rabbi Neuberger Our branch of Judaism was founded in 1902 partly on equality for women. One of its three founders was a women. Yet we still didn't really have it. For example, we have a monthly meeting for national rabbis. I was the first woman to attend and was made welcome. Then they elected me chairman and a kind of resistance began. They could not let me direct a meeting. When I became senior to them, even by their choice, they thought they could tell me what to do.
Sr Joanna The male colleagues with whom I work are superb. We are absolutely equal. They say working with myself and the other sister (our parish is run by two sisters and two priests) has profoundly changed their attitude. They had never previously deliberately excluded women. Now they see it as our responsibility and right to be working on equal terms with them.
So if somebody needs something, apart from the sacraments, it could be any one of the four of us who answers the call. We must meet every week for long and short term planning. But the day to day running of the parish is dealt with together. But other priests outside the parish, with notable exceptions, see us as typists or catechists — priests' helpers. Rabbi Neuberger I think it's important for women to be welltrained to take full ministry. I now teach rabbinic studies and I emphasise to women students that if they want to be treated as equal, they've got to make sure they know not as much, but more than men.
Sr Joanna I have a certain liturgical expertise and I find that that gives me an authority. Yet when you are a women ministering, people are surprised that you can do things differently. The other day at a funeral, the sister I work with received the body into the church. Afterwards, the funeral director said her handling of the service was refreshingly different. I think priests too often follow the patterns and rituals given in seminaries, without questioning their relevance to a particular situation. We are in a better position to introduce worthwhile innovation.
Rabbi Neuberger Women rabliis are trained with male colleagues but I think I'm more inclined to break with traditions. That is partly the state of being female — women aren't conditioned to be governed by form — but also the way one is trained to think in Liberal Judaism.
Sr Joanna Catholic priests often think that people who've always done things are the best people to do them. The approach in our parish is to involve as many people as possible, according to where their particular ministry lies. If there is anything we parish sisters have brought to our parish, it's thinking beyond the inner circle. The next circle out might be people who previously felt they had nothing to offer — men or women.
We encourage people to take up the ministry most suited to their talent, irrespective of sex. For example, men becoming catechists which is usually considered a woman's role.
Rabbi Neuberger I agree. Our caretaker Margaret is going to be off ill for a bit and I'll encourage t he men to make tea after the service. Not because men should make tea but because they don't normally do it.
In fact, there's an incredibly strong role model for girls in our congregation. We have a woman rabbi and a woman chairman. Soon we may appoint a woman president. That threesome would be an extraordinary phenomenon. We also let the girls read from the genuine scroll of the law. Orthodox girls (members of the Orthodox branch of Judaism) couldn't do that.
Sr Joanna It amazes me that though we'v e got women readers and women eucharistic ministers in the Catholic church, we do not have female altar servers. Many priest s would say it's not just an excellent idea but right to Sr Joanna It amazes me that though we've got women readers and women eucharistic ministers in the Catholic church, we do not have female altar servers. Many priests would say it's not just an excellent idea but right to have them. In practice because Rome has spoken, rightness gives way to rules, but it is something we are working towards in o.ur parish.
Rabbi Neuberger That is not to do with theology, is it? It's simple practice. But you don't have a churc h structure in which you can declare UDI! We have a parallel with the Chief Rabbi of Britain. If thinks something is a bad idea, it doesn't happen. But I am in a position where I could challenge him, since I am not under his authority.